Graham Brown: So maybe we can start by looking at radio itself as a format and commercial radio, and what that taught you as a host that you now bring into the world of podcasts as a craft. What do you know that most podcasters might not have had the benefit of working in that field?
JJ Thompson: So when people make a podcast, they make the assumption straight off the bat that, hi, everyone, everyone's listening. Oh, let's tell everyone about what we're talking about, and I find that to be so, it pushes audiences away where through radio, what I've learned is the power of the word, You. So, are you listening right now? So basically if someone says to me, I'm listening to a podcast and they go, oh, let me tell everyone. I look in my car. I'm like, who's everyone. It's just me. It's only ever one person. So I think when making a podcast, which we do in radio or the good radio hosts do is always talk to one person because it's ever going to be one person at a time that is listening and you're talking directly to that person. So for example, how I explain it is you're at a dinner table. There's three people at the dinner table. You, your cohost and audience people listening. If you're having a conversation with your cohost, you need to find a way of bringing that third person in. So if you're talking to someone and you mentioned a town or a city that the listener or the person that's at dinner with you that wouldn't know, you'd go, oh, by the way, if you didn't know this, this town is a place in the south of England, or this is, you kind of always include them in the conversation using the word you rather than, oh, let's just tell the people listening, what we're talking about. You automatically neglecting them, the audience, because it's like, you're talking to everyone else and not the person actually listening. And that's something I tell every single person I work with in podcasts and they're slowly, they're not going to get it straight away. They are still going to use the word or let's tell the people but I think that the most powerful word in audio, which needs to go into podcasts more often is the word you, because you is me and it's me listening.
Graham Brown: Where did you learn that? Did you pick that up from people that you studied the craft from where they're sort of, like people in the field that you looked up to and thought I want to be a radio host like him or her.
JJ Thompson: There's a real great book where I learned that in. It was something I was doing anyway, but it really honed in the power of that word, the word you, and it's a book by a guy called David Lloyd. He's a radio. He was a program director in the UK. You might've heard of him, Graham and it's the book is called, how to make good radio. When it comes, there's a whole section in there about content and how you speak to your audience, and I think that perfectly translates, well, obviously perfectly translates to podcasting because that is your content, and you've always, always got to talk to your listener as if it's one person. And to the point I say to them, put a picture above your microphone, put a picture on your wall, and you're just talking to that person because that will make it easier for you to include just one.
Graham Brown: Yeah, it's very much like they teach in advertising as well. The avatar, they call it a pen profile in the old days, they would actually sketch with a pen, a picture of the consumer, if you can call it that the buyer and, who's reading this newspaper ad, and so the copywriters would always have this pen profile to hand, like a picture of the housewife in those days. The buyer. And they then think about that person and their needs and so on. And in very much that creates the more engaging connection with that audience as well.
JJ Thompson: 100%, 100%. We did that, our program director on day one and he asked us, I want a 4.8 channel four. I host a breakfast show in Dubai, and the first thing you said is who's your target audience? And we were like, I don't know, age between 18 and 34, and is that a man or a woman? And we're like, I don't know, girl, we just didn't know the answers, and so he broke it down to literally, what does this one person do? What kind of field do they work in? You get it down to a full character profile of the one person you are aiming for. And from there, you're always talking to one person. So I say, going into podcasts, create a profile of the listener, the demographic, what they do for a job. Do they have kids? How much what's their salary? Where are they in that bracket? And you're always talking to that one person. Cause like you said, an advertising, if they do that, you're advertising your podcast, right? So you need to know who is exactly you are talking.
Graham Brown: Tell me about breakfast shows. I'm fascinated by this concept. It seems like, in the world of radio, I think any hosts speaking to another host would understand what a breakfast show really meant for most people. It's just sort of what they turn on when they're starting the day, but it's something else isn't it must be extremely competitive and it must require different type of host on a breakfast show, as opposed to another type of show. What attracts you to a breakfast show?
JJ Thompson: It's the sense of responsibility. I love being responsible for whatever output, whatever we put out there. Also more freedom. The breakfast show is the flagship show. It's the shop window, it's the main thing you're selling. All of the other shows are talking about your show. You set up the day for the station and for all of the listeners for the rest of their day. If you have an old full show, We're not arrogant to think that they're going to then going to have an awful day, but we have the power to set up people's day. So when they go into their office, they're fired and ready to go. And I absolutely love it so much more freedom. I've done UK radio, which you're probably very familiar with Graham like Capitol radio, which is very short, sharp, snappy word economy. Get everything as much information you can get in within 20 seconds and then play a song. But with a breakfast show, you have so much more freedom. You can really go into that. You can really make the most of your storytelling. You can bring callers on, you get so many voices, you get more listeners, therefore more people call a show therefore there's more stories. And what we've realized is that we're awful, and our listeners are so funny. We bring them on as much as we physically can. So they all feel like they're part of something. It's not the JJ Naomi breakfast show. It's the people Show, we want them to be a part of it and to come on and take the mic out of us. And if we mess up, people are texting and people are calling ups, like just having a bit of a laugh. So it's kind of, just friendly banter. I hate the word banter, but it's just a bit of a laugh in the morning just to set them up for the day nice.
Graham Brown: Sounding departures where it isn't it. So this has been so yeah. Bev privates there for people who didn't watch Alan Partridge. Okay. Yeah. I'm curious, when you think about radio, and if I go back to my youth, which has many, many years ago, that radio always had that call in element that was a big deal that really made radio, whether it was the sort of, like you say, the breakfast call-in or, you would have the requests. I always think about the guy and radio was, it might read who had requests or like the story of the two people that kind of met. And then they kind of went away and had the sad song, our song, that was it, right. That, all that kind of stuff. And it was very much involving people outside the audience, you. But let me think about podcasts doesn't really happen. Does it? It's still very much stuck in the sort of man speaks to man mode. Well, what do you think is missing? Do you think it's possible with podcast? Does it need it because it has social media. Do you think we're missing something?
JJ Thompson: I think the radio still wins to an extent like we've had Spotify, we've had apple. You've noticed in radio request shows aren't really happening anymore because if you want a request show, just grab your phone and put your song on yourself. Do you know what I mean? Where I think radio really wins is that, as podcast is free, but also where radio kind of pips it a bit where I think podcast will step up his game and there'll be more of that is that it's live. Anything can happen at any time, and we might have a show plan and a caller might come on and say a story. Like for example, we had a caller come on, saying that it was leading up to Valentine's day and that I've not really got anyone, not really met anyone, I'm single, and then we literally spent one hour and 15 minutes trying to find this woman a date. And then we had men went on and she was turning them down. Go, no, thank you. And then we get into the blow con and then, finally she met her match. They went on a dinner date and now this was about a year and a half ago. They're still together. And then he's going to be proposing soon.
Graham Brown: Oh, there you go. Let's cue the music and we have him on the line.
JJ Thompson: Exactly. Like the power of calling people on.
Graham Brown: Yeah, nice. I like it. It's a lot of fun, isn't it? And it creates that live experience. That's missing in podcasts.
[00:09:43] JJ Thompson: It is happening within podcasting. You can do it live through YouTube, linkedIn people are commenting and people are getting involved. Once you can actually get a bit of a phone in element, which I'm sure you can do. And once that becomes the norm within podcasting, then that's where podcasts will raise this game sooner, like 6:00 AM or your 10:00 AM slot. You could probably have that in your podcasts where you're listening for an hour on your drive to work, and it's live every single morning. Who wants to make a podcast at six, 7:00 AM. I'm not sure, but we do it in radio. Why not? Podcasts?
Graham Brown: Yeah. Like running a live show. I know it's your scene. You said your blood, isn't it. You love it. You love on the stage, the limelight, you love all of that. Like being at the moment of insanity, it could all melt down.
JJ Thompson: Yeah. Playing with that and going, I could really mess up in this situation and doing live radio, this could be the last show you ever do. Who knows? Come out.
Graham Brown: Was it Russell brand. I can't remember the other guy
JJ Thompson: Jonathan Ross, I mean, that was in hindsight, incredible radio. Incredible. I still watch it sometimes on YouTube. It's so good.
Graham Brown: Yeah. They got people talking. Well, what do you think about, I'm just finishing up on the radio part. What do you think about people like Howard Stern in terms of the format of radio that he created? Obviously he made a lot of money from serious and it's interesting that, when I first saw Howard Stern, I didn't really like him. Cause he just had all of these kinds of like freaks and weirdos and strippers and stuff like that on the show. And I thought, well, this is like just dumb. They're filling time. They've got hours and hours of programming to fill and they're just able to do silly prank calls and stuff. And yet like later on, I seen him now he's doing the interviews. About healing. He's actually a really good interviewer. I was really surprised.
JJ Thompson: One of the best.
Graham Brown: Yeah, I would agree with you JJ. He like really good. And he could, I think in a way, because his questioning really disarms people. He's not like, an Oprah who's teeing you up with like hitters. You can knock out the park. He's like coming in. I won't say anything here on recording, but you know what I mean? He'll say stuff that was really direct and just go straight for it.
JJ Thompson: He started off his career doing something that no one else was doing in radio. And he created the title shock jock that the shock presenter will say something outlandish. You'll get the strippers in on the show it's being kind of done and has been done again, over the last 10 years in Australia. On kiss FM. There's a show called the Kyle and Jackie Osho. And you'll see a lot of their videos going up in rotation because Kyle looks up to Howard stern is his ideal. There's a lot of presenters that are trying to do that, but I feel like that age has passed. I think Howard stern did it at the right time and now has changed his style to fit the society. Society and culture cancel culture, especially that we're in, if he was doing that and what he was doing, then. He wouldn't have a job. He would just be chewed up and spat out. So he's changed his tax, but what Howard stern does that a lot of presenters don't and it's the simplest rule, the simplest thing and grow. You're very good at this it's that he listens, he listens to who, who, who he is. He's talking to so many times I hear an interview and if you're listening right now, you'll probably agree. And you can hear it. Is that. Your Alaska question two to, to the singer or the artist or the superstar. And they answered the question. Oh, that's great. And then they look down to their sheet of paper and go, oh, can you, what I really wanted to ask was X, Y, and Z. No. Have one question, have only one question on that sheet of paper, that one question see as a tree trunk, that tree trunk is one question. They brunch it off and then you branch off from that and they branch off and you branch off and just be deeply engaged. With whoever it is, you're interviewing and you don't have to prep, do a bit of research on non go for it, but have it just a normal conversation. That's super relaxed. If you're relaxed, your guest is relaxed. You're going to get more content out of them and you and your listeners are going to be so much more relaxed listening to it. Nothing worse, nothing worse when you probably hear it every single day in Singapore, it happens in Dubai. It happens in the UK where the host is clearly just not listened to a word. The person. Yeah. There's a lot of that. I wonder if it's, because they're scared a little bit that, especially in light, when we work with corporates, it's not natural for them to go with one question.
Graham Brown: You have to have a list of questions and come prepared. You know, that that's sort of. Radio hardest by training and they're used to Polish presentations and therefore they have all these questions. I think over time though, they get better and they get more free flow, which is really nice. I think it's just listening.
JJ Thompson: No Graham, do you not agree? Just listen to what they're saying. And I find if you're, if you're deeply engaged, like we are right now, we're deeply engaged in each other's conversation. A question will pop up on the top of your head. You need to trust yourself. That question will appear, you know, it will, if you're actually listening to what they're saying, Do you find yourself like mindful of that when you're talking to people that at some point, for example, if we're talking, you've got this question coming up. Oh, go to ask this guy to ask this, got to ask this, but like, you're kind of pulling yourself back a little bit and just say, okay, just wait till it finishes. And then almost like the inspiration will come. How does it work with you when you're sort of in that zone, talking to somebody and interviewing them, just remember when you were in PA and you did those four.
Graham Brown: Those fallback exercises, where someone will catch you. The question will catch you. And if you have a question pop up in your head and then they carry on talking and that question then becomes dissolved. That's fine. Another question will come in because you're actually listening. Don't have a question pop up in your head.
JJ Thompson: Interject. No, don't let a question pop up in your head and then. I'm going to just think about this question. This is what, this is my next one. Thank you so much, Brian. It's there. It's floating around. If you can attack it with that question five, just be free flowing it. Just let the questions come to you because if you're listening, like you do very well.Graham, a question is going to pop up. I'm sure all these questions you've asked me. You didn't have written down. You can tell. No. I would tell you that as a vote of confidence, when you say you can tell yeah. As it is in a way it's like a. You got to go down a rabbit hole. Sometimes they, and like some people, they have their seven questions that they've got to steam roll through.
Graham Brown: And yet maybe you said something really interesting, like about questioning and it was going to stick on this point for as long as it's interesting. And you just keep going down the, until it starts becoming interesting. And it's just being able to do that. It requires a bit of confidence. I feel good practice to do that, that you feel that actually this can, this can come to a good resolution rather than I'm stuck.
JJ Thompson: How do I get out of this dead end? Right. How I would do it for say, you mentioned corporate clients have seven questions. And don't look at them unless you physically have nothing else to say on the, in that rabbit hole you were talking about, go off on a branch, go off on another tangent, golf, another tangent. If that naturally resolves, then you can have your, your, your safety net as it works is your questions or your safety net where you can then ask something else. Hmm. Okay. So changing question then I want to know about your thoughts because. You've got this really interesting background as a host on radio and worked in TV as well. And you've, you've dabbled with fame as a pop star. Interesting. Intriguingly and you're in the space now, obviously you're giving other people a voice. When you look at podcasts, for example, who do you think is. We're really approaching this in an interesting way. What have you sort of seen hard that sort of really sparks your imagination?Because like 90% of it is, you know, man speaks to man. That's how it is. And it's kind of like, okay, what's your story then? Yeah. I think there's so much more we can do like go all the way back to your first points about like, w you, what are you want to hear as a listener? Let's talk to you. Right. So who do you think is really inspiring you in this space?
Graham Brown: That's creating interesting work. They're sort of maybe pushing the boundary of that will be on podcasts to be honest. I don't think there is a pod. I'm sure you will know you've been in this space so much longer than me. I knew radio the back of my hand and because I can, I could audio produce. I know how to present. I feel like I know how to teach, uh, someone to become a better host, not the best host that takes a lot of work. Um, but yeah, you're right. It's just the podcast space is littered with. Great. So really great man, and man, and man, or woman having a chat with a guest. And I mean, Joe Rogan's parts of blame of that, right? The amount of podcasts that have popped up where it's just like, oh, that's we'll have a drink and we'll just sit around a table and we'll have a chat and we'll just see where it goes. And 90% of podcasts are dreadful. It's led with not good enough podcasts in my opinion. Um, but as, as a sense, Where it could go and what it can be live a live element to that.
JJ Thompson: If you're fully involved in the live space, that's yours and that you want. Oh, some type of show, like an actual show that you can engage with rather than interview style. I think interview style, we'll be here for the next couple of years and then once other formats and some great producers start producing really great engaging content. Like you would see on the television, the television on the, on the tele or on Netflix and create an actual shows that game show. Yeah, the keywords show, isn't it. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, but we were now webinars to death and every webinar's an event, isn't it, rather than a show, an event is like, you know, an appointment to watch something.
Whereas a show is like an experience for you. Right. And just thinking from that perspective, like this is a show I have to entertain, not inform at the end of the day, you know, I have to make sure that it's rewarding for you. I'll have some fin that has contestants has a host and contestants that come on at separate times and play something or do something and where it's quite fun. And doesn't take itself too seriously, where everyone's just having a bit of a laugh. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what it is, Graham. I'm not sure what it is, but I know, I know that's where it's going. And I think we've covered an echo that is always asking the question. What next there's a lot of production companies that are going what's happening now.
Graham Brown: Okay. Let's do that. But a little bit better. If we can on a call and response, just a guest in a host having a chat and maybe we can put some good jingles in and better production and it produced the audio quality better with better microphones. It's then where will it go from there? Um, radio on the BBC started back in the twenties and the thirties, and now radio has become more of a show rather than just one man talking down a microphone and you will listen. So it is evolving. And I think, I think with, um, a lot more people are listening to podcasts as a group, or have the group opportunity to listen as a group with the smart speakers and stuff like that. I think there's a real opportunity there. In doing group activities. I don't know if you were in kind of the wellness space or yo you could do a yoga type class where you can just put a speaker in the middle and people are sat around it and the podcast. I don't know what it is, but I know that's where it's. Yeah. Yeah. The shared experience. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. It has to be live. Yeah. Listen, every day at 6:00 AM, you've got this podcast with the problem with radio. Great. Is that it's always manufactured 99.9% of the hosts that are on the station together and manufactured had been put together.
Graham Brown: And it really is, uh, it's a dual di, but with a podcast, you're your own boss. You can create the show and you can have a live show with your best friend where people are calling in and they can build their. Buy into the real rapport that you and your friend have, or your coast co-host have. There's not many shows where it's like they went to school together.They went to uni together and then they both got into radio and they had a show there's one in Australia, the hay mission and the show were genuine. Best friends from university, both got into radio in Australia at the hardest market to be number one in, and they were number one for years because it was genuine rapport.
JJ Thompson: This in is real, genuine, authentic rapport between. Uh, presenter and cohost, where in a podcast space, if that was live and you were genuine best friends, I think people would buy into it. Hmm. Well, the technology is definitely getting better. Like that stream yard for a few hundred bucks, you can get what would cost a few million bucks like 20 years ago Right. I think. Oh, the, the type of personality that I know would do this format really well is your successful YouTube is because what they've done is take TV and then they've created their own content, which is theirs, and they can do anything and anything can happen. And that sort of space, or kind of the YouTuber of the.The podcast world, you know, YouTube is, are now stepping into that space and that some of their podcasts sound great, really fun, really exciting. If they were then live where people were constantly getting involved in and calling in or. Involving themselves in a show. I think that would be a real winner.
Graham Brown: Yeah. You like that calling? Don't you, you want to let that one go? That's the, I think that's just where the money shot. It's just always has been. I listened to BBC radio one with Greg James, and it's, it's not about him. A breakfast show. A radio show should not be about the hosts. It should be about you listening.
JJ Thompson: It's your show. Not, not the radio host show is always yours.

Graham Brown: So maybe we can start by looking at radio itself as a format and commercial radio, and what that taught you as a host that you now bring into the world of podcasts as a craft. What do you know that most podcasters might not have had the benefit of working in that field?
JJ Thompson: So when people make a podcast, they make the assumption straight off the bat that, hi, everyone, everyone's listening. Oh, let's tell everyone about what we're talking about, and I find that to be so, it pushes audiences away where through radio, what I've learned is the power of the word, You. So, are you listening right now? So basically if someone says to me, I'm listening to a podcast and they go, oh, let me tell everyone. I look in my car. I'm like, who's everyone. It's just me. It's only ever one person. So I think when making a podcast, which we do in radio or the good radio hosts do is always talk to one person because it's ever going to be one person at a time that is listening and you're talking directly to that person. So for example, how I explain it is you're at a dinner table. There's three people at the dinner table. You, your cohost and audience people listening. If you're having a conversation with your cohost, you need to find a way of bringing that third person in. So if you're talking to someone and you mentioned a town or a city that the listener or the person that's at dinner with you that wouldn't know, you'd go, oh, by the way, if you didn't know this, this town is a place in the south of England, or this is, you kind of always include them in the conversation using the word you rather than, oh, let's just tell the people listening, what we're talking about. You automatically neglecting them, the audience, because it's like, you're talking to everyone else and not the person actually listening. And that's something I tell every single person I work with in podcasts and they're slowly, they're not going to get it straight away. They are still going to use the word or let's tell the people but I think that the most powerful word in audio, which needs to go into podcasts more often is the word you, because you is me and it's me listening.
Graham Brown: Where did you learn that? Did you pick that up from people that you studied the craft from where they're sort of, like people in the field that you looked up to and thought I want to be a radio host like him or her.
JJ Thompson: There's a real great book where I learned that in. It was something I was doing anyway, but it really honed in the power of that word, the word you, and it's a book by a guy called David Lloyd. He's a radio. He was a program director in the UK. You might've heard of him, Graham and it's the book is called, how to make good radio. When it comes, there's a whole section in there about content and how you speak to your audience, and I think that perfectly translates, well, obviously perfectly translates to podcasting because that is your content, and you've always, always got to talk to your listener as if it's one person. And to the point I say to them, put a picture above your microphone, put a picture on your wall, and you're just talking to that person because that will make it easier for you to include just one.
Graham Brown: Yeah, it's very much like they teach in advertising as well. The avatar, they call it a pen profile in the old days, they would actually sketch with a pen, a picture of the consumer, if you can call it that the buyer and, who's reading this newspaper ad, and so the copywriters would always have this pen profile to hand, like a picture of the housewife in those days. The buyer. And they then think about that person and their needs and so on. And in very much that creates the more engaging connection with that audience as well.
JJ Thompson: 100%, 100%. We did that, our program director on day one and he asked us, I want a 4.8 channel four. I host a breakfast show in Dubai, and the first thing you said is who's your target audience? And we were like, I don't know, age between 18 and 34, and is that a man or a woman? And we're like, I don't know, girl, we just didn't know the answers, and so he broke it down to literally, what does this one person do? What kind of field do they work in? You get it down to a full character profile of the one person you are aiming for. And from there, you're always talking to one person. So I say, going into podcasts, create a profile of the listener, the demographic, what they do for a job. Do they have kids? How much what's their salary? Where are they in that bracket? And you're always talking to that one person. Cause like you said, an advertising, if they do that, you're advertising your podcast, right? So you need to know who is exactly you are talking.
Graham Brown: Tell me about breakfast shows. I'm fascinated by this concept. It seems like, in the world of radio, I think any hosts speaking to another host would understand what a breakfast show really meant for most people. It's just sort of what they turn on when they're starting the day, but it's something else isn't it must be extremely competitive and it must require different type of host on a breakfast show, as opposed to another type of show. What attracts you to a breakfast show?
JJ Thompson: It's the sense of responsibility. I love being responsible for whatever output, whatever we put out there. Also more freedom. The breakfast show is the flagship show. It's the shop window, it's the main thing you're selling. All of the other shows are talking about your show. You set up the day for the station and for all of the listeners for the rest of their day. If you have an old full show, We're not arrogant to think that they're going to then going to have an awful day, but we have the power to set up people's day. So when they go into their office, they're fired and ready to go. And I absolutely love it so much more freedom. I've done UK radio, which you're probably very familiar with Graham like Capitol radio, which is very short, sharp, snappy word economy. Get everything as much information you can get in within 20 seconds and then play a song. But with a breakfast show, you have so much more freedom. You can really go into that. You can really make the most of your storytelling. You can bring callers on, you get so many voices, you get more listeners, therefore more people call a show therefore there's more stories. And what we've realized is that we're awful, and our listeners are so funny. We bring them on as much as we physically can. So they all feel like they're part of something. It's not the JJ Naomi breakfast show. It's the people Show, we want them to be a part of it and to come on and take the mic out of us. And if we mess up, people are texting and people are calling ups, like just having a bit of a laugh. So it's kind of, just friendly banter. I hate the word banter, but it's just a bit of a laugh in the morning just to set them up for the day nice.
Graham Brown: Sounding departures where it isn't it. So this has been so yeah. Bev privates there for people who didn't watch Alan Partridge. Okay. Yeah. I'm curious, when you think about radio, and if I go back to my youth, which has many, many years ago, that radio always had that call in element that was a big deal that really made radio, whether it was the sort of, like you say, the breakfast call-in or, you would have the requests. I always think about the guy and radio was, it might read who had requests or like the story of the two people that kind of met. And then they kind of went away and had the sad song, our song, that was it, right. That, all that kind of stuff. And it was very much involving people outside the audience, you. But let me think about podcasts doesn't really happen. Does it? It's still very much stuck in the sort of man speaks to man mode. Well, what do you think is missing? Do you think it's possible with podcast? Does it need it because it has social media. Do you think we're missing something?
JJ Thompson: I think the radio still wins to an extent like we've had Spotify, we've had apple. You've noticed in radio request shows aren't really happening anymore because if you want a request show, just grab your phone and put your song on yourself. Do you know what I mean? Where I think radio really wins is that, as podcast is free, but also where radio kind of pips it a bit where I think podcast will step up his game and there'll be more of that is that it's live. Anything can happen at any time, and we might have a show plan and a caller might come on and say a story. Like for example, we had a caller come on, saying that it was leading up to Valentine's day and that I've not really got anyone, not really met anyone, I'm single, and then we literally spent one hour and 15 minutes trying to find this woman a date. And then we had men went on and she was turning them down. Go, no, thank you. And then we get into the blow con and then, finally she met her match. They went on a dinner date and now this was about a year and a half ago. They're still together. And then he's going to be proposing soon.
Graham Brown: Oh, there you go. Let's cue the music and we have him on the line.
JJ Thompson: Exactly. Like the power of calling people on.
Graham Brown: Yeah, nice. I like it. It's a lot of fun, isn't it? And it creates that live experience. That's missing in podcasts.
[00:09:43] JJ Thompson: It is happening within podcasting. You can do it live through YouTube, linkedIn people are commenting and people are getting involved. Once you can actually get a bit of a phone in element, which I'm sure you can do. And once that becomes the norm within podcasting, then that's where podcasts will raise this game sooner, like 6:00 AM or your 10:00 AM slot. You could probably have that in your podcasts where you're listening for an hour on your drive to work, and it's live every single morning. Who wants to make a podcast at six, 7:00 AM. I'm not sure, but we do it in radio. Why not? Podcasts?
Graham Brown: Yeah. Like running a live show. I know it's your scene. You said your blood, isn't it. You love it. You love on the stage, the limelight, you love all of that. Like being at the moment of insanity, it could all melt down.
JJ Thompson: Yeah. Playing with that and going, I could really mess up in this situation and doing live radio, this could be the last show you ever do. Who knows? Come out.
Graham Brown: Was it Russell brand. I can't remember the other guy
JJ Thompson: Jonathan Ross, I mean, that was in hindsight, incredible radio. Incredible. I still watch it sometimes on YouTube. It's so good.
Graham Brown: Yeah. They got people talking. Well, what do you think about, I'm just finishing up on the radio part. What do you think about people like Howard Stern in terms of the format of radio that he created? Obviously he made a lot of money from serious and it's interesting that, when I first saw Howard Stern, I didn't really like him. Cause he just had all of these kinds of like freaks and weirdos and strippers and stuff like that on the show. And I thought, well, this is like just dumb. They're filling time. They've got hours and hours of programming to fill and they're just able to do silly prank calls and stuff. And yet like later on, I seen him now he's doing the interviews. About healing. He's actually a really good interviewer. I was really surprised.
JJ Thompson: One of the best.
Graham Brown: Yeah, I would agree with you JJ. He like really good. And he could, I think in a way, because his questioning really disarms people. He's not like, an Oprah who's teeing you up with like hitters. You can knock out the park. He's like coming in. I won't say anything here on recording, but you know what I mean? He'll say stuff that was really direct and just go straight for it.
JJ Thompson: He started off his career doing something that no one else was doing in radio. And he created the title shock jock that the shock presenter will say something outlandish. You'll get the strippers in on the show it's being kind of done and has been done again, over the last 10 years in Australia. On kiss FM. There's a show called the Kyle and Jackie Osho. And you'll see a lot of their videos going up in rotation because Kyle looks up to Howard stern is his ideal. There's a lot of presenters that are trying to do that, but I feel like that age has passed. I think Howard stern did it at the right time and now has changed his style to fit the society. Society and culture cancel culture, especially that we're in, if he was doing that and what he was doing, then. He wouldn't have a job. He would just be chewed up and spat out. So he's changed his tax, but what Howard stern does that a lot of presenters don't and it's the simplest rule, the simplest thing and grow. You're very good at this it's that he listens, he listens to who, who, who he is. He's talking to so many times I hear an interview and if you're listening right now, you'll probably agree. And you can hear it. Is that. Your Alaska question two to, to the singer or the artist or the superstar. And they answered the question. Oh, that's great. And then they look down to their sheet of paper and go, oh, can you, what I really wanted to ask was X, Y, and Z. No. Have one question, have only one question on that sheet of paper, that one question see as a tree trunk, that tree trunk is one question. They brunch it off and then you branch off from that and they branch off and you branch off and just be deeply engaged. With whoever it is, you're interviewing and you don't have to prep, do a bit of research on non go for it, but have it just a normal conversation. That's super relaxed. If you're relaxed, your guest is relaxed. You're going to get more content out of them and you and your listeners are going to be so much more relaxed listening to it. Nothing worse, nothing worse when you probably hear it every single day in Singapore, it happens in Dubai. It happens in the UK where the host is clearly just not listened to a word. The person. Yeah. There's a lot of that. I wonder if it's, because they're scared a little bit that, especially in light, when we work with corporates, it's not natural for them to go with one question.
Graham Brown: You have to have a list of questions and come prepared. You know, that that's sort of. Radio hardest by training and they're used to Polish presentations and therefore they have all these questions. I think over time though, they get better and they get more free flow, which is really nice. I think it's just listening.
JJ Thompson: No Graham, do you not agree? Just listen to what they're saying. And I find if you're, if you're deeply engaged, like we are right now, we're deeply engaged in each other's conversation. A question will pop up on the top of your head. You need to trust yourself. That question will appear, you know, it will, if you're actually listening to what they're saying, Do you find yourself like mindful of that when you're talking to people that at some point, for example, if we're talking, you've got this question coming up. Oh, go to ask this guy to ask this, got to ask this, but like, you're kind of pulling yourself back a little bit and just say, okay, just wait till it finishes. And then almost like the inspiration will come. How does it work with you when you're sort of in that zone, talking to somebody and interviewing them, just remember when you were in PA and you did those four.
Graham Brown: Those fallback exercises, where someone will catch you. The question will catch you. And if you have a question pop up in your head and then they carry on talking and that question then becomes dissolved. That's fine. Another question will come in because you're actually listening. Don't have a question pop up in your head.
JJ Thompson: Interject. No, don't let a question pop up in your head and then. I'm going to just think about this question. This is what, this is my next one. Thank you so much, Brian. It's there. It's floating around. If you can attack it with that question five, just be free flowing it. Just let the questions come to you because if you're listening, like you do very well.Graham, a question is going to pop up. I'm sure all these questions you've asked me. You didn't have written down. You can tell. No. I would tell you that as a vote of confidence, when you say you can tell yeah. As it is in a way it's like a. You got to go down a rabbit hole. Sometimes they, and like some people, they have their seven questions that they've got to steam roll through.
Graham Brown: And yet maybe you said something really interesting, like about questioning and it was going to stick on this point for as long as it's interesting. And you just keep going down the, until it starts becoming interesting. And it's just being able to do that. It requires a bit of confidence. I feel good practice to do that, that you feel that actually this can, this can come to a good resolution rather than I'm stuck.
JJ Thompson: How do I get out of this dead end? Right. How I would do it for say, you mentioned corporate clients have seven questions. And don't look at them unless you physically have nothing else to say on the, in that rabbit hole you were talking about, go off on a branch, go off on another tangent, golf, another tangent. If that naturally resolves, then you can have your, your, your safety net as it works is your questions or your safety net where you can then ask something else. Hmm. Okay. So changing question then I want to know about your thoughts because. You've got this really interesting background as a host on radio and worked in TV as well. And you've, you've dabbled with fame as a pop star. Interesting. Intriguingly and you're in the space now, obviously you're giving other people a voice. When you look at podcasts, for example, who do you think is. We're really approaching this in an interesting way. What have you sort of seen hard that sort of really sparks your imagination?Because like 90% of it is, you know, man speaks to man. That's how it is. And it's kind of like, okay, what's your story then? Yeah. I think there's so much more we can do like go all the way back to your first points about like, w you, what are you want to hear as a listener? Let's talk to you. Right. So who do you think is really inspiring you in this space?
Graham Brown: That's creating interesting work. They're sort of maybe pushing the boundary of that will be on podcasts to be honest. I don't think there is a pod. I'm sure you will know you've been in this space so much longer than me. I knew radio the back of my hand and because I can, I could audio produce. I know how to present. I feel like I know how to teach, uh, someone to become a better host, not the best host that takes a lot of work. Um, but yeah, you're right. It's just the podcast space is littered with. Great. So really great man, and man, and man, or woman having a chat with a guest. And I mean, Joe Rogan's parts of blame of that, right? The amount of podcasts that have popped up where it's just like, oh, that's we'll have a drink and we'll just sit around a table and we'll have a chat and we'll just see where it goes. And 90% of podcasts are dreadful. It's led with not good enough podcasts in my opinion. Um, but as, as a sense, Where it could go and what it can be live a live element to that.
JJ Thompson: If you're fully involved in the live space, that's yours and that you want. Oh, some type of show, like an actual show that you can engage with rather than interview style. I think interview style, we'll be here for the next couple of years and then once other formats and some great producers start producing really great engaging content. Like you would see on the television, the television on the, on the tele or on Netflix and create an actual shows that game show. Yeah, the keywords show, isn't it. I know it doesn't sound like a big deal, but we were now webinars to death and every webinar's an event, isn't it, rather than a show, an event is like, you know, an appointment to watch something.
Whereas a show is like an experience for you. Right. And just thinking from that perspective, like this is a show I have to entertain, not inform at the end of the day, you know, I have to make sure that it's rewarding for you. I'll have some fin that has contestants has a host and contestants that come on at separate times and play something or do something and where it's quite fun. And doesn't take itself too seriously, where everyone's just having a bit of a laugh. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what it is, Graham. I'm not sure what it is, but I know, I know that's where it's going. And I think we've covered an echo that is always asking the question. What next there's a lot of production companies that are going what's happening now.
Graham Brown: Okay. Let's do that. But a little bit better. If we can on a call and response, just a guest in a host having a chat and maybe we can put some good jingles in and better production and it produced the audio quality better with better microphones. It's then where will it go from there? Um, radio on the BBC started back in the twenties and the thirties, and now radio has become more of a show rather than just one man talking down a microphone and you will listen. So it is evolving. And I think, I think with, um, a lot more people are listening to podcasts as a group, or have the group opportunity to listen as a group with the smart speakers and stuff like that. I think there's a real opportunity there. In doing group activities. I don't know if you were in kind of the wellness space or yo you could do a yoga type class where you can just put a speaker in the middle and people are sat around it and the podcast. I don't know what it is, but I know that's where it's. Yeah. Yeah. The shared experience. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. It has to be live. Yeah. Listen, every day at 6:00 AM, you've got this podcast with the problem with radio. Great. Is that it's always manufactured 99.9% of the hosts that are on the station together and manufactured had been put together.
Graham Brown: And it really is, uh, it's a dual di, but with a podcast, you're your own boss. You can create the show and you can have a live show with your best friend where people are calling in and they can build their. Buy into the real rapport that you and your friend have, or your coast co-host have. There's not many shows where it's like they went to school together.They went to uni together and then they both got into radio and they had a show there's one in Australia, the hay mission and the show were genuine. Best friends from university, both got into radio in Australia at the hardest market to be number one in, and they were number one for years because it was genuine rapport.
JJ Thompson: This in is real, genuine, authentic rapport between. Uh, presenter and cohost, where in a podcast space, if that was live and you were genuine best friends, I think people would buy into it. Hmm. Well, the technology is definitely getting better. Like that stream yard for a few hundred bucks, you can get what would cost a few million bucks like 20 years ago Right. I think. Oh, the, the type of personality that I know would do this format really well is your successful YouTube is because what they've done is take TV and then they've created their own content, which is theirs, and they can do anything and anything can happen. And that sort of space, or kind of the YouTuber of the.The podcast world, you know, YouTube is, are now stepping into that space and that some of their podcasts sound great, really fun, really exciting. If they were then live where people were constantly getting involved in and calling in or. Involving themselves in a show. I think that would be a real winner.
Graham Brown: Yeah. You like that calling? Don't you, you want to let that one go? That's the, I think that's just where the money shot. It's just always has been. I listened to BBC radio one with Greg James, and it's, it's not about him. A breakfast show. A radio show should not be about the hosts. It should be about you listening.
JJ Thompson: It's your show. Not, not the radio host show is always yours.